Why did they wait until Monday to do a voluntary a evacuation or were the city father is involved in the decision not to panic the thousands and thousands of people still there for the Thanksgiving holiday. Period. The fire gutted the entire city block and closed a dozen businesses. Regarding the Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 14th, 2016, https://www.facebook.com/GreatSmokyMountainsNPS/posts/1236286613095333. I get free speech, but if I yelled fire in a crowded theater when there was none and it contributed to death and injury I too would be held liable; my speech would not be protected! Oh thats right they did but it was after everything burned! Will the NPS Fire Management leadership at the Regional, NIFC and Washington DC levels admit to some very poor policy and decision making problems associated with the Chimney Top 2 disaster? The coordination and communication of the Incident Management teams is impressive. I certainly hope the investigation of the totality of fire is not pressured to conclude prematurely. The news person is very frustrated as she nor their rival Channel 8 can do no interviews due to the gag order. To access this area, it is important to follow check point protocols. Once again the County and the City is sitting around twiddling their thumbs and doing nothing just like they did when the fire started and they could have contained it. Report: Gatlinburg fire caused $7 million in damages. I knew him when he was at Indiana Dunes National Lake Shore. 1,000 feet of rise / 0.2 mile (1,056 feet) is a slope of 94.7%, not 77%. The fire could have been stopped over the weekend if proper procedures had been followed. Sandra, I agree. I bet someone of you one here would sing a different tune if you loss a big chunk of your retirement because of someone incompetence. Oddly, some folks that posted photos of the fire of the 23rd in its early stages have either pulled the blogs or the material cannot be accessed. You may have a point regarding lawsuits, reported actions and actual actions. How did all the downtown businesses know to close and send their employees home, but not one word of warning was given to homeowners/residents? All without the but why reflection, cause and effect analysis, drill down technique and the inter-relationship effect. The one picture showing a PVC clean-out with charring on it is a very good example of a very fast, hot torch of flame blasting a relatively small area. By the time we got to the Marshalls house it was 6:00 PM and they were watching the news. Fire crews were dispatched to a structure fire around 6:30. On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9. I think the point is that IMT managed wildfires in the southeast had residents in pre-evac mode when high winds were forecast before each cold front passed. Its always been this way so you have to watch who you deal with, this is why the City and County need to clean this up, this would bring down the prices of these people with signs up everywhere for clean up. The individual was identified as Joe Martin Bates, 54, according to the Sevier County Medical Examiners office. Even though they are showing people receiving checks the day they apply, this was not the case for him. Yes, some the ridges connecting to chimney-tops had dead hemlock stands. Visibility was bad and it was hard to breathe as we unpacked our truck. Kelly you are right, NO Help from City or County in the clean up..SOS home owners responsible for all.. Im sorry but that initial fire management at the outset was atrocious. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9 that killed one person and injured another. As the crow flies, thats not far from Gatlinburg and Ive heard of and read about how quickly wildfires spread and how far reaching they can be under dry conditions from drought. Suggestion, contact Dolly Parton or representatives of her holdings and give her (them) the emergency phone line to Global Supertankers. He promised a committee to study what happened and there has been no word since. He was told there was none/no one. These fires were allowed to cook with little or no suppression action. I began to notice people smoking while driving their vehicles when I would be out and about and they would flick burning embers out windows and sometimes throw cigarettes out windows. Bill, correct me if I am wrong, but aircraft should be on the ground a half hour after sunset? Another example from my own experience which has been rocked by bias and blatant failure to receive appropriate support and assistance when asked for; causing issues to occur that were later simply blown way out of proportion with conspired lies in order to protect and cover up the real underlying issues and people. On Sunday when GSMNP called in helicopter water drops, there were 3 fire tanker planes sitting on the runway 20 minutes away in Chattanooga (covered in Wildfire Today). You bet you were. We do have insurance however based on the prices for clean up there it wont go far enough to build back. When I built a home here just a few years ago and wanted to have a sprinkler system installed, I was told we dont have big wildfires here. We are to be stewards of the land. Most events have a series of issues that contribute to the outcome, the more catastrophic the event the greater the number of contributing factors. GATLINBURG, Tenn. UPDATE (Monday): Firefighters discovered a body in the rubble of these fires, our ABC affiliate WATE reported Monday morning. Thank you for this excellent synopsis. Holding the responsible people accountable is the only course of action that honors what was lost. Neddo said total shock is the only way to describe how he feels. Given the wind forecast, pre-evac notice should have gone out on Sunday, Monday morning at latest. At any rate, I have not heard any knowledgeable person say acquiring resources during those first five days was a major difficulty. Theres no guarantees that putting a couple hotshot crews with good air support on that fire earlier could have prevented this tragedy, but that would have been more defensible. Take a look at the Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 14th, 2016 and you really might begin to question what really went wrong here. Still cant seem to get any answers if the BACKFIRES got out of control when the NPS ignited them contributing to the loss of life and structures in Gatlinburg??? GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - Four downtown Gatlinburg businesses are picking up the pieces after a fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. According to the great gag order, government officials should not be commenting???? It is to be considered, but verified by other means. What is these adults had taken immediate action to correct and intervene in this unsafe behavior by children. Thats perfect Johnny. Lets say the NPS put a crew on it day one in steep inaccessible terrain as they say it was in. It is a primary source and illuminates some of the discussion topics that have been on Wildfire Today. Especially our local emergency workers and the Park Service. Numerous photos show a dramatic increase in smoke in the downtown area between 5 and 5:30 pm. Standing dead hemlock burned up their trunks, to as high as 50 feet on one specimen I saw. So property owners are left to deal with everything and if we had the power we would have done something like worrying the crap out of all of them until action was taken. Not sure on how the Hemlock Wooly Adelgid infects our truly awesome and beautiful Hemlocks, but I do know that the Balsam Wooly Adelgid, the non-native insect that has helped to lay waste to the equally magnificent Fraser Fir forests such as found on the highest peaks Clingmans Dome, Mt. The wind remained at moderate strength on Wednesday with gusts decreasing from 37 at 3 a.m. to the lower teens by the end of the day. Conspiracy, no. I certainly agree there are definitely consequences for our actions, for some more than others. The DA in Sevier County has put a gag rule in effect since the get go to protect the teeneagers involved. But when it's close to home, the sadness and concern of those affected is ten-fold in the worry department. At the big forest fires in NC and GA, where the federal incident management teams were located, the Incident teams ordered pre-evacuation prior to the arrival of a cold front when strong, gusty winds were forecast. As my husband was carrying things to the car at 5:00PM, a white SUV came by. Parkway in downtown Gatlinburg from the intersection at Traffic Light No. What caused the fire in the Smoky Mountains? The deaths in this incident can be attributed to being trapped and forced to shelter in place. I turned on tv to see if there were warnings of any sort. I wish the Feds had kept the case instead of handing it off to the local DA. Thats totally untrue. People died and lost so much and that is absolutely tragic! Great info/synopsis of the Gatlinburg/Sevier county wildfires. As citizens we should be aware of all threats we face and expect our leadership to plan ahead as best they can. This data from Indian Grave was not too far offthe forecast issued the day before. I spent two weeks in the area after the fire to inspect my property and ascertain where my wife and I would go from there. Its sad. A fire burns at a high-rise building under construction in the Tsim Sha Tsui district in Hong Kong on March 3, 2023. I was on the phone w them that Mon. Chief Kurtz was right on target to compare South Canyon, Yarnell, and now Chimney Top 2. Fire managers brought in resources from all over the country. When boys and I got back home around 3:45, the winds were beginning to pick up and branches were beginning to fall. Our neighbors 3 doors down were outside near their car. I told him my home was on fire and he said they were evacuating everyone,then. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (AP) Firefighters have found a body in the remains of a building that burned in . Thanks for the good fact based, solid coverage of the events leading up to the fire. These are the facts and simple truths that should not be ignored. I told him we would come pick him up in his car. I love the mountains, but can I feel safe again? His parents died in the fire in Gatlinburg . This country was founded on open respectful discussion, such as this which has occurred in this article commentary and blog comments. Investigators have determined that the fire was human-caused and are asking for information from anyone who has information about people or vehicles that were seen in the area that day. Firefighters from Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge responded. Virtually no one knows they have it and THEY DID NOT USE IT. It would be interesting to understanding the impact of excessive fuel from dead hemlocks, killed by hemlock wooly adelgid (together with the lack of moisture typically found under a mature, live, shady hemlock canopy, even with the extreme drought conditions) had on this fire. This Park Ranger was appointed to this position in December 2014 and he took office in February 2015, so in a span of one year and nine months he managed to let the place burn and we have owned property there for 32 years and nothing remotely like this has ever happened. Teddy Roosevelt, who as you may know, was instrumental in establishing our national parks. Many on that team are not NPS employees, but are highly experienced wildfire fighters. We need to question everything and everyone with the same tenacious veracity as the other, but we also need to allow for humans to be human, and engage in the process of learning. Hemlocks were mentioned in a number of daily updates on Inciweb because they are basically standing roman candles thanks to the spiral of limbs. Concerning the time the fire jumped 441. I always come back to that groupthink mentality, the ladder of inference, the been there done that mode, the failure/fear to act, and thats how weve always done it thinking; all part of how our unconscious brain works without our conscious intervention and critical thinking skills. Accountability! However, by the time a federal judge dropped the charges six months later, some had lost focus on the fire. Your reply well done! Hire an independent fire behavior consultant to assist in PLANNING and timely response if conditions appear to be coming into (fire) alignment. If Im not mistaken, there is a Bob Stanton that was a former NPS Director. Bob had stayed in West TN after Thanksgiving, to work there for a few days before returning home so he wasnt with us. Though Im missing the boat a little here, my questioning is still legitimate being that any managed ignited fire can still get out of control adding to an existing wildfire or creating one. They had the same weather forecast information. I was truly astounded at how well coordinated the IMT teams are they cover it all, firelines, backburns, aircraft, field communications, weather forecast, community information via meetings/Facebook/Blog page/Twitter with daily updates, pre-evacuation notices when wind events were predicted. Four downtown Gatlinburg businesses are picking up the pieces, after a fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. From 7 p.m. until midnight sustained winds were at 13 to 17 mph with gusts from 34 to 49. Many are willing to allow the absolute open permission to some to behave as they will without question, but are unwilling to allow others the same room to learn and grow. @wvlt pic.twitter.com/P7roVBCq8B. Once the winds came on day 5 or 6, there was nothing anyone could do. I would like to insert the word, accountability into this discussion. I told him I would call fire department in Gatlinburg across from Food City. I just assumed that others would be leaving Gatlinburg out of concerns similar to mine. All of the big trees were gone (although younger trees had been treated and saved). I dont know details as to the trail. Intense, deep burning fires with significant downwind spotting should be expected. Finally a local coalition was formed to put pressure on NPS officials to uphold their mandate on historic structures. Not everything that happened with the fires had a dotted line to those two teens. It was a very horrible dream and I had qualms about my trip before I arrived in Branson. Shame on you. On the evening of the fire, I was monitoring tornadic storms across northern Mississippi because my family were driving to If youve ever been in an incident management role you understand often having made a good decision given the best information available at the time you dont get the outcome you want. Undoubtedly, the current management of our natural resources will come before the Judgments of the Almighty; for human lives were lost in this fire. When I arrived in Branson at the hotel I was close to a fire exit, and frankly forgot about my nightmare. However, their findings could certainly implicate some of the decision makers concerning how things were handled and may lead to a few resignations. Jon Binhammer had an excellent point about the hemlocks. Almost every creek drainage in GSMNP has stands of dead hemlocks (though some areas near roads had some hemlocks treated regularly to prevent adelgid infestation). How Gatlinburg attempted to notify its residents to evacuate as the fire burned into the city, http://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2016/12/13/timeline-gatlinburg-wildfires/95138656/, http://www.southernfireexchange.org/etc/ITPFISE.pdf, Long bushfire season wears down firefighters in Queensland and Western Australia, Community near Heppner, Oregon first in Morrow County to earn Firewise designation, County Cork fire brigades work through the night on gorse fires, Renewed call for the Holy Grail of firefighter tracking, Hiker owes $300,000 for Arizona wildfire he started. Person killed in downtown Gatlinburg fire identified. I cannot count how many times my wife or I would find a fire smoldering typically from someone who flipped a lit cigarette and the brush when they were finished. For the most part, the issues are with the Upper Brass. Humans will never be able to control or suppress all unwanted fires-structure, chemical or wildland. I can only hope that the actions are being undertaken somewhere and by the decision-makers and leaders to think and act differently. Within a few days or week prior to this deadly fire I heard a local major Knoxville radio station broadcasting a satire bashing HRC, Obama, the Federal Government among a few other controversial things, and how the revolution has begun including the incitement of burning down the place, this Knoxville radio station followed this rant with songs whose lyrics tough-ted and instructed the starting of fires. The helicopter worked until it had to refuel and then two other Type 1 helicopters took its placeuntil dark. Officials said three people. Click here. This is the path to healing, and the way to light. At least one of them drove up the street below our house and parked there for about an hour. Ive noted the contrast between how the Incident Management Teams approached the fires compared to the NPS. Kelly Morgans comments may have been harsh and offensive to some folks; but when government builds a wall; sometimes it takes a loud voice to get their attention. (PETER PARKS/AFP via Getty Images) Chan estimated the insurance claim could . One question I have not seen asked is why any adult would have witnessed children playing with matches and lighting fires especially under the obvious conditions in this situation and 1. not taken immediate action 2. Now I am tasked with trying to motivate and coordinate the local fire departments much of who are volunteer, the state and national forest professionals to work with me and the community. It goes for miles, Ive pushed as hard as I could straight down and only managed 1/10th mile an hour on the gps in a few such places. Over 3000 wildfires received Initial Attack in November in the southern Appalachians, many of which were still very active when Chimney Tops 2 started. Stantons car was full of gas and only has liability insurance. My questions are: what were the wind speeds when NPS crews ignited these backfires to protect NPS structures; and if they ignited fire on the 28th when the winds were getting stronger and stronger, would the potential exist for backfire embers to get out of control? Visited Gatlinburg for the first time in Oct 2016. Ms.Schroer said she was not aware of any actual on-the-ground fire suppression efforts, other than perhaps some work on a distant indirect fireline, until Monday November 28, after the fire had grown large and crossed US Highway 141, the main road into the park. The leadership tetrahedron if you will, the area where all the parts come together based on the past, the current, the potential and the possible. I remember a news A day or so later where that fire chief of the Gatlinburg stated that they knew on Sunday that it was predicted the fire would hit Gatlinburg proper by 11 AM on Tuesday morning. Im thankful to be tuned in. Along with other Park issues like un-managed timber (very limited burns, mostly fields, not forested areas), we concluded the saying demolition by neglect. The use of smokejumpers could be part of the plan. Do arsonists typically work alone? They had access to the same fire flight info from Sundays flyover that other agencies had. Why is forestry both national and state not working more collaboratively with citizens and local fire departments to improve awareness and preparation? In my eyes, TEMA should have taken control of the situation and ordered evacuations before sunset. Our local congressional representative will be the first to confront the Park Service for numerous shortfalls, bias agendas that cater to special interest groups, and a host of other issues to where the NPS serves itself more so than the people. All rights reserved. Fire-wanted or unwanted- is not a warm and fuzzy abstract thing it is often portrayed in todays media and society to play around with. Then, a few days later they had the full timeline article and info about the NPS not following its own protocols. The lawsuits from an event like Gatlinburg could go on for decades. China Bazaar, Pucker's Sports Grill, Gifts of Gatlinburg, and Caf 420 were all deemed a complete loss. I called Bob, boys and I got a bite to eat for supper so we wouldnt be a bother to our friends whose house we were going to wait out the evening. Back home in West TN, when tornado warnings were active in a particular area there were loud sirens that went off. Where was all the HELP TO PUT THIS FIRE OUT A WHEN IT STARTED???? Granted these fires werent inside Gatlinburg, but the fire chief knew full well the potential for catastrophic wildfires in these mountains. I felt it urgent to get out of the woods. We could see the smoke. I am like you in that I will never be able to get a good nights sleep on the mountain again as Im all be consistently looking out the window. I wonder why? there is still a nagging question regarding the use of BACKFIRE on the part of the NPS and the Gatlinburg Fires? Out east our experience is usually ground fire with relatively less risk of widespread destruction. Your are correct; and we all pray and hope for the community to get back on their feet again. The learning system of resolution. There is no cost, and in case you change your mind each email has an unsubscribe button. Mr. Cash cant order an evac, but he could have made a recommendation. We could get blocked in by both. Many structures were lost- thankfully no lives. I can tell you that within the week prior to this fire in the Greenbriar section of the GSMNP, I hiked on trails rustling through leaf litter that came up to my mid shins. A mandatory evacuation should have been issued, at the latest, Monday morning, with reverse 911 calls, as well as loudspeaker equipped vehicles. All without the but why reflection, cause and effect analysis, drill down technique and the inter-relationship effect. By the way, I havent seen any local media covering much for the victims since the coverage with Jerry and the pursuit of compensation. Firefighting resources assigned to the fire include 25 hand crews, 61 engines, 6 helicopters, and 2 dozers, for a total 780 personnel. Bill thank you the excellent i sight and info that is hard to find publicly. Superintendent Cash says the NPS has no jurisdiction to issue evacuations for the City of Gatlinburg. When peoples towns and lives are at stake, letting a fire burn or hoping to get lucky is a tough sell. How far from the Chimney Tops, as the crow flies, were these pictures taken? http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/cabin-on-creek-and-chimneys-top-2-fire.html, http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/great-chimney-tops-2-fire-science.html. The cleaner told officials he found Bates in the room where the fire started and had what appeared to be a warming fire going. This is one of the wettest areas in the entire US, and when you do not not receive a drop of rain for months on end, you know something bad is going to happen. The decisions that worked made us heroes, and those that did not changed us if we were allowed that opportunity. What is these adults had taken immediate action to correct and intervene in this unsafe behavior by children. All together this was the absolute worse place to have a fire at almost the worst time, save it was lucky to not have been a few weeks earlier. For the region, I hope fire officials do realize that regional history makes little difference if the right combination of factors exists for rapid and extreme fire growth. Interesting time line, fire discovered about 1730 November 23. Who is watching the back door? Honor those who have risked much to help, indeed. The report said the fire was an accident and caused around $7 million in damages. Why? because poor, inadequate human decision making allowing basic fire physics, fire chemistry and TIME to align resulting in avoidable death and destruction! I am a management specialist and I understand how to plan, and implement risk-protection and safety in many kinds of settings, to address various threats to people. Sunset that day was at 5:21 p.m. which would have allowed them to drop on the fire until 5:51 p.m., 30 minutes after sunset. The wildfires caused millions of dollars in damage. The Chimney Tops 2 Fire was reported in Great Smoky Mountains National Park near Gatlinburg, TN at approximately 5:30 p.m. on Wednesday, November 23, 2016. A voluntary evacuation should have been issued at least 36 hours before the fire exploded. Also. Why the Monday morning quarterbacks seems to always get it right, while those in the game make the errors and the scores, winning and losing. Another 2.3 inches accumulated that day by the time it stopped at 7 p.m. So many unanswered questions? Instead simply took pictures on their phone, 3. Bob called. The mayor and many fireman lost their homes and businesses, not to mention the deaths. It is not just officials who have not caught up with the new climate reality, it is the general public and those in the path of fire. I have a close friend on IMT in southern CO so have some familiarity with the process.

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